Rowan Mangan: Do you like blue cheese? So breaking a cultural rule is not bad. The pandemic actually helped some people, I think, because when you are on your own for long enough, you start to feel what is natural for you. I think you feel this way about sexuality, Glennon. I honestly, I said, this whole thing is spirit. She has survived childhood sexual abuse, and removed herself from the Mormon church. This isnt what you want to do. I was just thinking I should read those damn books. Rowan Mangan: Cookie information is stored in your browser and performs functions such as recognising you when you return to our website and helping our team to understand which sections of the website you find most interesting and useful. I decided what every woman needs is a wife, but now Im thinking what every woman needs is two wives. A nice surprise: in each episode of SmartLess, one of the hosts reveals his mystery guest to the other two. Well, and I think thats why Karen is so relaxed about being counter cultural because she knew for a fact that her parents would love her no matter what. The codependent is the fly, I feel completely bound to sit here and wait for you to take my life energy for your needs. And the spider is like, This is such a great relationship. So the person higher in the power hierarchy is often the spider and is being served by the fly. About Martha:Dr. Martha Beck is a New York Times bestselling author, life coach, and speaker. And I got much more codependent during the times when my older children were tiny and had to sort of pull myself out of it and learn, well, Ill never forget, speaking of the way nature does things. Thats a weird bit of language. Ill do anything to make you happy.. Because I always feel better after we talk. And the fly is going, Thats so interesting, because I do not.. So can you talk to us first about how this all came together? Review our. Just do something before they stop screaming. Karen had done it all too. Rowan Mangan: So write a list of things you have to do and then read through it and see if theres anything you dont want to do. Martha Beck: And me, I was already out on my ear. Beck has had an extraordinary life. What can people do today to return to themselves? Anyway, they give you clues that youre not doing it right. 2015-2023. Matt speaks directly from his heart about life wisdoms coming from experience and deep thought. Martha Beck: What will it mean for Pike County? Martha Beck: I feel like that one of your books mentioned that the importance of separating yourself completely for a while from culture to find out who you are. You know thats what theyre all thinking. And I was like, but nothing happened. Ratings and reviews are like gold in the podcasting universethey help people find us, they help build this beautiful community, and most of all, they help us in our quest to Bewilder the world. So many people are striving towards normal because thats what were promised will make us happy. And it was awesome. Also later, you probably, Ive never mentioned this, I went to Harvard. Rowan Mangan: And some cuddles while we watch television. So theyre no longer in the picture in terms of being in the house. So it was just the weirdness, like just what you would imagine. Email us! As she tells Emine Saner, who better to write self-help books? And also, I just feel like were talking about some of the same things and it makes me really excited. Seriously, Ive been getting physical therapy and then I lift weights like a maniac to try to build my strength up. I know. Cause really this is just all about authenticity. We can unhook from codependency to create relationships in alignment with our true nature. Tell me both of you, we do this thing called the next right thing where we just tell people one little thing they can do, which lets just tell people one little thing they can do to do a homecoming. I mean, Rows not that much older than they are. Once Id finished with it, I researched it. Exactly what she said, optional. We Can Do Hard Things is produced in partnership with Cadence 13 studios. And this is another episode of Bewildered, the podcast for people trying to figure it out. Okay, so you were feeling it was weird, but you were telling yourself it wasnt weird. Thank you, Bev. Martha Beck: Dont I count? No, they dont count. I mean, there are people who arent going to like it when you stop helping too much. Chalene delivers straight talk and simple strategies (with a side of humor) so that every show delivers a return on your investment of time. It was like falling off a cliff and saying, well, Im going to decide whether to hit the ground. 4. About Martha: Martha Beck: And so we gathered together and its like gathering around the campfire. And I think everybody should get a chance to do it. Thats what a good codependent. This website uses Google Analytics to collect anonymous information such as the number of visitors to the site, and the most popular pages. I'm also the co-developer (along with Martha Beck) of the online writing course, Write Into Light. Its non judgment. And so one of the other people who lived there asked me to come and do some writing work with her over a few months. How easy is it to make a promise? I have all I am doomed to be a cultural outcast. Ro is currently pursuing publication for her first novel, a magical realist thriller set on the west coast of Ireland. I had people tell me a lot, a lot, like, You seem really worn out and youre trying to take care of everybody and its stupid. I mean, people were very blunt about that. If you disable this cookie, we will not be able to save your preferences. I am learning so much about that term and what it means and how it applies to my life as a mother and caregiver. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices. I want to first thank you so much for this podcast. Rowan Mangan: Martha Beck: You speak them all the day long. Someday Ill film the whole thing, but Im not going to be able to get her to do that again, because her will is stronger than all of ours. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy, Learn more about your ad choices. I was made to love. In this chapter, I discuss case-studies that have used animal-cognition principles in conservation. Ive learned my lesson. So I was all like misty-eyed and excited. You are downplaying this so hard. We were like, oh my God. Yeah. I think if wed been living in a city or been Like we were 40 minutes from the nearest pint of milk at that point. I have to show you. And look here you are explaining it with language to our grateful listeners. Shes like, So mom, now theres three of us and da, da, da. Shes just telling her. I want to know what they were feeling and thinking at that moment because the culture is not interesting to me. What are yours? Marty, its time. Martha Beck: Why do you follow the culture when you see what the culture has done, right? And one close to our hearts. My whole life is about spirituality. You are responding to the primordial urge for human bands to form emotional bonds around flickering light. To help her serve others more. So Im curious about, this is obviously a psychological phenomenon, but theres also culture at play in encouraging that kind of behavior. To say something happened does not prove it happened; to say one has physical evidence is not to show that evidence. Dr. Martha Beck is a New York Times bestselling author, life coach, and speaker. Shes doing all these things and shes tired. And they would all sit around talking about what to do to medicate her so shed be happy in that role. So for us, we didnt even really know anything about it. Only I can do it for the little baby bears. Do you know what I mean? I mean the antichrist, the devil incarnate really. And Marty and Karen were great about it. I would also say our mornings are pretty ritualistic where whoever wakes up first usually takes the dogs out, makes the coffee. Like that was not even in the realm of possibility with any of this stuff. And if youre a Bewildered fan, wed love for you to consider giving us a little rate-and-review love on your favorite podcast player. Rowan Mangan is a writer, podcaster and mom to a vivacious toddler. I grew up in a very conservative Mennonite church and so was raised to be a codependent wife and mother. And like we planned the day around these times where we would get to sit close together on the couch. Is there something youve been feeling bewildered about? Its sexualizing yourself in front of people over and over and over again, that is traumatic. Like jealousy does come up, but its not like just because jealousy might be there that its a deal breaker for a relationship. Please forgive any typographical or grammatical errors. And its so nice that Bev asked about that because my whole brain is all sort of turned that direction as I read through this beautiful, wonderful book. Rowan Mangan Communications. 3. And I thought they were going to get together. With a healthy dose of humor. Rowan Mangan: Yeah. I call this way of living " Wild Inventures ." And cant seem to get her shit together. So you project what they want and need. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy, Learn more about your ad choices. A huge lesson for couples based on the revolutionary ways they deal with conflict, jealousy, and daily rituals to stay close. Of course. Theres two men and a woman and she gets to make all the rules and tells people what And thats what, I get it. Rows bomb came to visit, she was in the guest room. Martha Beck: Virtue. You havent talked about this a ton publicly. Tell me, Marty, what are you trying to figure out this week? Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices, Normal Gossip delivers juicy, strange, funny, and utterly banal gossip about people youll never know and never meet. She holds three Harvard degrees in social science, and Oprah Winfrey has called her one of the smartest women I know. Her newest book, The Way of Integrity: Finding the Path to Your True Self, was an instant New York Times Best Seller. I've spent a readerly life, which has led me to a writerly life. Like just happens to line up exactly with the rules of the culture. You treasure your connection with blue cheese. The Chalene Show is life coaching, personal development, nutrition, exercise, Earshot is going seasonal, welcome to our first season Promise Me. And if you love a cultural image of paper doll that I put out to fit the culture, you dont love me because you dont know me. He really needs to work on his codependency. She gets around five or six. Martha Beck: Yeah. There was a commotion upstairs. Because theres somebody else like jumping in to say, No, this is what you do, Marty. Photo by Rowan Mangan . Salty, klutzy and Aussie, Ro co-hosts the Bewildered podcast with her wife, Martha Beck. Is that when I started thinking about doing a podcast on codependency, I remembered this thing that we did. Rowan_Mangan. Because if you put all attention off yourself and on at other people, the natural response, going from culture to nature, is it feels wrong. Martha Beck: Martha Beck: Martha and Ro define codependency as over-caretaking. So this is someone who actually knows whats going on. For You What is Polyamory - and how Martha, Rowan, and Karen make their relationship work. 3. Rowan Mangan: Martha Beck: Rowan Mangan: Because we were all flaming codependents. Listen Sarah is a journalist obsessed with the past. Its like everything else is just structures in your brain. What is Polyamory and how Martha, Rowan, and Karen make their relationship work. Because I dont think that people think about this enough, that the coming out process is not just stressful because you are telling your parents you like another gender or the same gender. And that was sort of the model of virtuous motherhood. And it said, Id like to come down, could you please be my mother? And she was just sobbing. Martha Beck: And I just said, You know what kids? But I do love that queerness has sort of broken the cages. In September 2018, she was the only black woman in the room at Brave Magic, a famed writers retreat. Like, How do you have sex with a woman? These kinds of questions. Martha Beck & Rowan Mangan: Polyamory & Throuple Life. So then after dinner, Row goes off to put the baby down and Adam and I watch TV together, weve been doing it forever. 542 posts. Good. They come from, I have heard, from the dark days of Soviet repression in Russia. Rowan Mangan: And the way this one book framed, it was like, its interesting because we, as human beings decide that jealousy is something that we cannot experience, but thats not how we feel about anger or sadness or heartbreak. Rowan Mangan: Row, what are you trying figure out? How Martha felt after years of marriage to Karen when Karen told her she was in love with Rowan, too. And so the whole getting interrogated and having to defend yourself and everything, she knew that wouldnt happen to her with her most intimate people. She holds three Harvard degrees in social science, and Oprah Winfrey has called her "one of the smartest women I know." Her newest book, The Way of Integrity: Finding the Path to Your True Self, was an instant New York Times Best Seller. Codependent No More: How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself. Martha Beck: So she raised up on her hind legs as we walk into the room and hear this conversation and she goes, Well, I love Rowan and I love Marty. Its someone sitting there going, Oh no, you do that actually, Row. Or, No, that is exactly what you said 10 minutes ago, Martha, you did say that.. Because when Abby and I fell in love, and decided we were going to be together, we were scared. What if they always treat others the way spiders do? Martha Beck: Martha Beck: Martha Beck & Rowan Mangan: Polyamory & Throuple Life. So thats one clue. Doesnt it just feel like-. Write by: . It may be the 21st century, but in a not-so-united kingdom the wounds of the the Wars of the Roses have never healed. These short bites of knowledge and wonder will give you inspiration to stay on your mission, build consistency, and serve others with all your heart! What do you think Ive read on like nine different philosophies, and I think if we just bring this from that style and this from this style. Do you have experience of trying to get out of one of these? Exactly. Martha Beck: It was like trying to hold ourselves on a little bar above the earth indefinitely and everything was pulling us together. And when you say, Okay, wheres the limit of my resentment? And I think thats the difference is, yeah, I tend to over help or over care take. I think its a natural way theyve survived being in an orphanage etc. And I thought, you know what Im going to do? And then we continue. In both writing and editing, I produce polished, professional work to tight deadlines. If youve ever felt like an over-giver, this conversation is for you! Rowan Mangan: Eliana's life has never been what one might term ordinary. You get all frantic and then you And Im like, I do. 2, Kal Penn | Getting Warmer with Kal Penn, Episode 403: Everything about this is wrong, The Fox News Defamation Lawsuit: Money, Ideology, Truth, LiesIts All Right There, How To Tell Engaging Stories With Your Social Media Content. I just think thats so freaking cool that you had the courage to do that. Im on Facebook as Rowan Mangan. The spider loves the fly, but only in a consumptive sense. I dont know. And then that all her siblings would love her no matter what. Wow. And Im thinking you have never raised a baby. Yeah. Martha Beck: She must be half Hermes. Martha Beck: What do we do? Martha Beck: He likes a glass of wine. And at first people think, oh wait, what? No BS. Its Karen and Adam. Youre born free to fly. Copyright Momastery & Glennon Doyle, All Rights Reserved. 3. How many good mothers does it take to put in a light bulb? And it was a radio program called Queen For A Day. Then what we are trying to figure out. Martha Beck: Martha Beck: Dynamic set of behaviors. You just never tell me anything. Kettlebells, the baby. They found in the 80s when men were trying to step up and help more with housework, that a lot of the wives, when they would do studies on households, would shame and basically belittle and attack the husbands for doing the housework wrong. Rowan Mangan: And not even that. Now Im outdoorsy. Dr. Martha Beck is a New York Times bestselling author, life coach, and speaker. Is that how you describe? I have literally been called the antichrist in public and I always I responded, I thought that he would be taller. Life on its own terms: a weekly column about creativity, writing, and the quest for an authenticity that feels great even if it looks weird. We read them all and love them. When you look at traditional gender roles. * Martha recalls learning Chinese with some unhappy Russians, * Extended metaphors and exploding doormats. Rowan Mangan: And we have what we call morning communion, which is at least an hour long of just being together and the babys zipping around and were just connecting. You can unhook from codependency to create healthy relationships in alignment with your true nature, and Martha and Ro talk about how to do that in this insightful episode. View full post on Instagram And I dont think theres a parent out there whos tried to be a good parent who hasnt felt this way, like put the baby first to the point where you are falling apart. 1. People who don't experience empathy, such as narcissists and psychopaths, are very hard for codependents to understand. IG: @rowan_mangan When my older kids were about 12, 14 and 16 or 10, 12, and 14, they were sitting around like writing computer programs and stuff. Yeah. So everybody gets together. Theres a way that you have of being positive that is confusing to me. "Its The Procrastination Episode of Bewildered, People talk about shower thoughts as those b. So this is what she said. Excellent. Its what he likes. Because its so invisible. And I came home and I was like, no screens, right. And the reason we thought this was such a great question was because in our culture, for many of us, it is seen as laudable to have this disordered behavior. I honestly, Ive got to tell you, Marty, I wasnt that invested in the outcome of the question. And thats what we were playing out, to my friend, we were like, Well, we were just complimenting you by assuming you were codependent.. Its so funny that our brains automatically need to know that part. Host Kelsey McKinney discusses reader-submitted comedic gossip with guests, diving into the lives and decisions of complete strangers. I dont have the logistical competency, but go, go ask questions. Ro is currently pursuing publication for her first novel, a magical realist thriller set on the west coast of Ireland. And you said Martha, because didnt you say this about Karen too. And we just always talk about imagining the truest most beautiful relationship or family and you clearly have done it. No, I got a lot out of that. Our handle is @bewilderedpodcast. And it kind of is a natural thing that happens when youve got a very, very small infant. Said 1% of the population that theyre in a deeply satisfying domestic arrangement. And theres nothing more important and wonderful to us than the TV couch time at night. Yeah. I was just When I was in Africa, wed get around the fire pit and wed tell stories. Rowan Mangan: Theres this light bulb joke. I often think it must be really hard for people whose nature lines up exactly. So for Karen and me, because wed done all this and because, like we really were the ones who had all the advantages, like the solid couple and it was a weird situation for all of us. So thats, I think, the vast majority of people. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices. They are the coolest people. Give and take. Martha Beck: The way being gay was considered super weird when I was growing up in Provo, Utah, but we had this speech we made up. And so then over time we sort of edged towards what was actually happening, because the one thing about Martha and Karen is anyone who knows them, knew them, that that is not ever going to break up. And on this radio program, people would send in stories of the mother or wife in their family who is so depleted by constant care taking, she goes to all the soup kitchens and makes soup all day long, and then she comes home and she makes soup for us. And I never know, like it could go anywhere. Like couples? So it was all like we had to sort of go, what is this, what this And there came a point where I was like, I will keep this from getting weird because I am not famous, but I am quite well known among people whove heard of me. Victoria Mcknight. Rowan Mangan: The hilarious moment Martha, Karen, and Rowan told their friends they were now a throuple. Martha has claimed a lot of things, but she has proven none of them. About Martha:Dr. Martha Beck is a New York Times bestselling author, life coach, and speaker. I watched in awe from my home while this simple phrase from Untamed WE CAN DO HARD THINGS the mantra that saved my life twenty years ago, became a worldwide rally cry. So Im doing this with like 15 pounds and its killing me. If there could be a future focus at some point on codependency. Its time for another BeWild Files episode of Bewildered, where Martha and Rowan answer questions that YOU, the listeners, are trying to figure out! And thats better for all the bears. Youre a little fly. If you can do it for yourself, Im not going to do it for you. Because that is natures way. She also runs the Wild Inventures newsletter and community on Substack. Rowan Mangan: Rowan Mangan: Have you seen these things? Because were-. Do you feel like that? Oh my God. But the first thing that comes to mind is something that happened several decades ago, but the echo of it still resonates. What I try to do, is stop it before I kill anyone. But codependency can make you feel exhausted, burnt out, and resentful toward those youve been helping, especially when they feel entitled to your over-giving. And then you squat, low, you squat very low. Yale professor Dr. Laurie Santos has studied the science of happiness and found that many of us do the exact opposite of what will truly make our lives better. I do think also that if youve had to take care of someone or something, like a pet or a baby, and the most of the people doing care for very young babies are women, you get into that mindset of trying to be almost psychic about understanding other people what they need. What has this taught you that everybody can learn from to deepen their own relationships? Get them out of the way early. So he calls it wine time. And if you are a bear, and youre caught in a spiders web, really, like buck up. And its still the worst thing you can do for everyone involved. 2. In these eight deeply personal stories you'll hear promises made, broken, kept, and stretched. Wandering The Path by Punch Deck | https://soundcloud.com/punch-deck, Music promoted by https://www.free-stock-music.com, Creative Commons Attribution 3.0 Unported License, *required fields are marked with an asterisk. Oh, my pedestal.